Royal Dux nude figurine

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Posted by yara
16 years ago
AI Appraisal
💬 14 Comments 🗣️ Discuss with Community
Description This is a Royal Dux figurine from Czechoslovakia, the mark on the bottom reads Royal Dux Czechoslovakia and the numbers 7 and 707
Category General Antiques and Collectibles
Distinguishing marks Royal Dux
Condition Excellent
Date Period 1950
eBay Auction Link
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Submitted by Dee 1961

It is a very nice piece, is it chipped or damaged? http://www.rickkaplanantiques.com/europeanceramics.html This is one of the nicest pieces I have seen on this site. At a "MINIMUM" a reserve of a thousand should be put on this piece if it is ever auctioned. It should be itemized and insured for possibly 3 to 4 times that amount.

With all due respect, how do you come to the conclusion this particular piece should have a thousand dollar reserve? Royal Dux figurines of this vintage routinely sell at auction for under $350.00. Lovejoy

In all respect to the observation of what you pay for items at an auction the post did not indicate a desire to sell. I read a reference to auctions last night and as I attend "many of them" have a sense of "when money is left in the item." I attend probably on average two to three auctions a week. If there is an identical or similar item that was displayed available for sale at the price you mentioned it would have "money is left in the item." It is not what I buy at the auction that adds value to what I do, it is the reverse, what I don't buy! I also have seen remarks about the costs at Replacements Ltd. I can tell you that at an estimated 70 million anual sales (their figure and estimate from Amazon.com) that they are doing something right. I can also tell you that the bid/ask price between their pieces reflects the costs of running a large corporation as well. I attended an auction in the last two weeks of psychic Jeane Dixon. There was a catalouge created for the event that created the provenance nd the authentication of the pieces, this was an "action." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/16/AR2009071604717.html I also attended a "weekly saturday auction" of the box-lot's variety where no catalouge of the items was offered. You can find them in the AuctionZip website, there is no real secret here that these events happen routinely. The craft of buying and selling, and marketing more importantly is the art of actively collecting. Like the Book of five rings it is knowing the right buying and selling scenario before it is executed. Would I pay $1000.00 for the piece personally? No. Would I stand by the costs of replacing that piece for taht amount? Yes. I will assure you that choosing where you auction an item is as imprtant as the item being auctioned. If the pieces you claim sold at that price, and if you had access to the right segment of that selling market, a good risque antique or vinatge Royal Dux figurine will command the price I asserted if marketed intelligently and with patience. I stand by the assertion that that was one of the nicer items that I have seen at this site.

I'm third generation in the Antique business and attended my first auction in 1960, so I think I know a tiny bit about valuations;~) The values I post are not based on one or two examples, but virtually all similar pieces sold at Decorative Arts sales held major auction houses within the last year. Like most Appraisers I subscribe to a wide variety of services that catalog such sales by all the major auction houses in the USA and Europe. For example if I do a search for " Royal Dux figure" within the past year in just one of my databases, 80 examples comes up, of which only one sold for more than $1000.00 ( A very large circa 1900 figure, 30" in height). Anything sold for over $1200 has been large figural groups and center pieces, of the others: 21 sold for under $199.00 10 sold in the $200.00- $299.00 range 3 in the $300.00-399.00 range 5 in the $400.00- $499.00 range 3 in the $500- $800.00 range ( large early figures) Values for any item depend on rarity, demand and most importantly provenance. While there is always " some money left" in an item bought at auction, there is very seldom a 4X retail mark up from Decorative/Fine Arts Auction results by the major auction houses. Lovejoy

Again I was pointing out that not all items sell at auction. But "Utility, scarcity, desire, and effective purchasing power" determine the sale. Worthpoint and databases on Ebay, Acorn demographics, etc.. nice tools... But without effective marketing and sales of little value. Here is a very good example of a high end shop and a database of recent sales would mean little. http://www.limogesantiques.com/ Some items don't auction often. Some don't sell at auction. http://www.tias.com/3452/InventoryPage/404072/1.html I have no idea what these people bought at auction price for these items, I can say that the price asked might be negoitable. I have not held the piece in my hand personally as stated in the initial post, but if it was "not listed for sale" as indicated and it did go to auction I would reserve $1000.00. If the seller is a crackhead it might go in a dollar lot box~

First point, everything sells at auction, it's where the majority of Decorative/Fine Arts items change hands. My original comments address your suggestion that the piece in question should have a reserve of $1000.00 at auction. Based on current records from reputable Auction houses that specialize in Decorative Arts patronized by such "High End" Dealers is well off the mark. As I said before, the results I use are not from some country auction or liquidator, but by Auction houses that specialize in these pieces. These sales are well publicized with full color catalogs. If a Decorative Arts item by a well known maker does not sell at an auction by Sotheby's, Christie's, Bonham's, Treadway, James Julia Etc. it's a good indicator that the reserve is too high for the market demand, or there's blockage in the market and values are in decline. Of the items that show in the link http://www.tias.com/3452/InventoryPage/404072/1.html only four are of comparable size to the one listed here at instappraisal and their prices are below even your suggested Auction reserve ;~) My main point here is that many have unrealistic expectations as to the value of their items. Providing them with Auction values from Specialist sales attended by knowledgeable buyers gives them a base line value from which they can determine the fairness of offers they might receive from dealers or Collectors. Lovejoy

Besides all that an item is only worth what someone will pay for it. You can ask whatever you wish but you will not get it. Even for insurance reasons the value would be checked by the insurer. This item is replaceable and can be purchased online for $450.00 right now as I stated previously.

Ok, let me stand back and restate the obvious. I have NOT seen the identical item listed for $450.00 online. That said, my house is not for sale, if my neighbor wants to list their house for any amount, if my house is "not for sale" and "not for auction" the value of the house is highly speculative and contingent on market conditions. While quibbling with "self appointed experts" can be entertaining (myself included) the fact is that we are spending allot of time discussing a hypothetical sale that has not taken place. "First point, everything sells at auction" That statement is patendly ridiculous and answering any subsequent supposition based on that premise a waste of time, it is disingenious, lurid, and insidious. If I sell a piece of real estate, I list it at a price, it is not auctioned! On the comp price of $450.00 what I see is a "motivated seller" they feel that there is money left in the item above and beyond the price to be sold. What I really sense here is that I'm getting an emotional response that is reflected in some previous replies. I almost get a sense that the objections go beyond the price of eastimate of worth, not the 2x as the comp reflects and was insinuated, and that 2x reply to an inquiry that cleary stated: "The Item was not for sale" and what appears to me an attempt to say: "hey we offer a community of opinions of value" and in essence two people stating that differing opines are unwelcome. Why not contact the person who posted the item and ask them to sell at $450.00, double the price and come to $900 and see if they sell? That scenario is not too damn far off from my estimate. Your ascribed value, actual sale value, and value to the owner are three different things. I think really the objections both of you make are petty. I think they are hidden objections to another issue that is in fact emotionally driven. Let's call this "Lovejoy and Kathybeh world" where the "price of everything and the value of nothing" is determined. And in closing, if you think that some of the items that I hve are for sale at "auction" you are wrong! I have items that are privately held and for sale by appointment only!!! These sales are performed in strict confidentiality with no databses. If I owned this identical item and you state that it is worth $450 that doesn't entitle you to it if you show up at my door and the price is $1000.00. It doesn't mean anything if the item is NOT FOR SALE! One thing is for certain however, this was indeed a nice item as I initially responded and if you can get them at the price that you state at your "auctions" are a real bargain! Not all of us run from one low-income auction zipcode and buy and drag it to a high-inome zipcode for subsequent resale, many collectors "buy and hold" and once they have done so will not relinguish a piece of value unless a "premium" is offered for that item. The piece reflects my sensibilities and what I find attractive and valuable. I find a concensus of that value out in the real market. Any serious "investor" in antiques would do well to have that piece in their portfolio. Pieces in private hands are not stocks of the Dow or Nasdaq sold on open markets, they are not spot-price bullion, and your ability to attain them is in equal part contingent on the seller. If anything~ The price at $450.00 is "priced to sell" I see a price of a motivated seller. I don't think any amount of counter arguments made by either of you will convince the person who owns the item to decide to sell it to you for $20.00. In closing decide if this is an open community for responsible and differing opinions on value and worth or this is: "Lovejoy and Kathybeh world" where the "price of everything and the value of nothing" is determined. Your responses are frankly becoming more ridiculous and if you have a point to be made it is not about this piece. If I offended either of you by informing the person who requested a FREE opinion of the value of their item, I'll apologize to the person who posted the item but not to someone who insists it be a price for their ego, needs, or desire instead of the owners. Something I value and have not for sale starts at 2X before we even BEGIN to initiate a discussion of selling it, maybe 3x, 4x. If there is a hidden objection beyond the item, lets address it like adults. The quibling is frankly ridiculous.

http://www.trocadero.com/accents/items/564966/item564966store.html I am not quibbling at all. I just showed you the item selling for $450.00. I have no interest in this item. I am not intending to buy it (if it where for sale) but, if I was there would be no sense in paying $2,000 for it when I can get it for $450.00.

Understood, but if I were solicited to perform an appraisal on the part of the owner I would exceed the amount, if that item sells at $450.00 with S&H and insurance and the next item for sale went $750.00 then I had performed a fair service, I would have instructed the owner to insure at a replacement cost. If.. the insurance company said.. heh.. we can make you whole and reedeemed with this item and the photographs show each of equal and identical value, then that offer is whole under the law. If say I hold out for sentimental reeasons to an automobile compensation, the insurance company owes me "blue book" unless I explicitly carry "replacement coverage." I wasn't that out of line with the piece, wouldn't pay the $1000.00 myself for it, but if I see it at auction will pursue it with the other knowledgeable buyers and find out how much cash was at that auction that day! This piece was nice as it is an "investment portfolio grade piece", small, timeless in appeal, and not all that "common." If the thread was worth anything it demonstrated that if you see a "similar piece" and the market is soft, that this is an opportunity piece. Also I held neither piece in hand, I have no idea if somebody copy and pasted pixels over a chip or a wear mark, I have no idea what the "other side of the pieces look like". I as a rule almost NEVER buy or sell online and want to touch that piece and examine it. But yeah.. this is a portfolio grade piece and you can bet will appreciate in value. I would love to have this item, love to get it at a bargain point buy.... If I see these, I chase them to a point of not excluding myself cash-flow from an equal buying value proposition, but yeah.. I'm a buyer of pieces such as these. Don't leave the auction without it! :)

I'm going to take this point by point and reply because I feel you've mistaken taken my response as a personal attack. Your comments are in quotes. "Ok, let me stand back and restate the obvious. I have NOT seen the identical item listed for $450.00 online. That said, my house is not for sale, if my neighbor wants to list their house for any amount, if my house is "not for sale" and "not for auction" the value of the house is highly speculative and contingent on market conditions." It's value is not highly speculative, it's determined by values of comparable houses sold within your local market. For example nobody in their right mind is going to pay you $300,000 for your house in a declining market, when all houses comparable yours has sold for under $180,000 in the past month. "While quibbling with "self appointed experts" can be entertaining (myself included) the fact is that we are spending allot of time discussing a hypothetical sale that has not taken place". The discussion centers around the fact you made a claim of value that is not backed up by any standard reference sources or sales data and you seem put out when you were called on it ;~). "First point, everything sells at auction" That statement is patendly ridiculous and answering any subsequent supposition based on that premise a waste of time, it is disingenious, lurid, and insidious. If I sell a piece of real estate, I list it at a price, it is not auctioned!" Everything has been sold at auction at one time or another, including the being the Emperor of Rome (Didius Julianus bought the Empire at Auction, 193 CE). In the case of your house, you can list it privately for whatever you want, but a Real Estate agent will try to list it according to the current market. The Real Estate market is very much like an auction, you are given a pre-sale estimate ( the current market for comparables), you set a reserve ( asking price), and then take bids. If your asking price is too high it doesn't sell. "On the comp price of $450.00 what I see is a "motivated seller" they feel that there is money left in the item above and beyond the price to be sold." If it's being sold retail in a declining market and the majority of comparables list for similar amounts, then there is very little " Money left in the item", it's being sold for what it currently is worth in the market of highest value. "What I really sense here is that I'm getting an emotional response that is reflected in some previous replies. I almost get a sense that the objections go beyond the price of eastimate of worth, not the 2x as the comp reflects and was insinuated, and that 2x reply to an inquiry that cleary stated: "The Item was not for sale" and what appears to me an attempt to say: "hey we offer a community of opinions of value" and in essence two people stating that differing opines are unwelcome." Anyone can offer their opinion here, what you are getting here is a simple statement that you are off the mark on this piece by a substantial margin, along with documentation to back it up. Nothing personal intended. "Why not contact the person who posted the item and ask them to sell at $450.00, double the price and come to $900 and see if they sell? That scenario is not too damn far off from my estimate" I for one can't do that, I am not a Dealer. As an Appraiser it is unethical to offer to purchase items you have provided valuations for. In any event, if this piece retails for $450.00 by dealers that specialize in such figurines, there is very little chance of flipping it for $900.00 in a declining market. "Your ascribed value, actual sale value, and value to the owner are three different things." Value to the individual owner means very little to the market. For example, if you feel your Hummel 47/0 TM3 Goose Girl is worth $500.00, that's fine, but you are not going to sell it for that in a market to an informed buyer where dealers that specialize in Hummels retail it for $175.00 or less. "I think really the objections both of you make are petty. I think they are hidden objections to another issue that is in fact emotionally driven. Let's call this "Lovejoy and Kathybeh world" where the "price of everything and the value of nothing" is determined." As I said in my first reply to you, "With all due respect, how do you come to the conclusion this particular piece should have a thousand dollar reserve? " It was a simple statement asking for verification of how you determined value for the piece in question. The objections made were based on the realities of the current market, and backed up on current sales data, nothing petty about it. "And in closing, if you think that some of the items that I hve are for sale at "auction" you are wrong! I have items that are privately held and for sale by appointment only!!! These sales are performed in strict confidentiality with no databses. If I owned this identical item and you state that it is worth $450 that doesn't entitle you to it if you show up at my door and the price is $1000.00. It doesn't mean anything if the item is NOT FOR SALE!" Nobody asked about your collection or how you run your business, nor did anyone suggest anything other than the state of the current market for comparable figuirnes by Royal Dux. "One thing is for certain however, this was indeed a nice item as I initially responded and if you can get them at the price that you state at your "auctions" are a real bargain!" It is indeed a nice piece, but not exceptional for a Royal Dux. It's a bargain compared to what similar pieces sold for at the peak of the market, but it's as pointed out earlier the value I listed is what the majority of comparable Royal Dux nudes are selling for at auctions that specialize in Decorative Art. "Not all of us run from one low-income auction zipcode and buy and drag it to a high-inome zipcode for subsequent resale, many collectors "buy and hold" and once they have done so will not relinguish a piece of value unless a "premium" is offered for that item." When some one generally asks for a appraisal they are asking for the value in the current market, which is what we have been discussing. The fact a buyer is not currently willing to sell has no bearing on the current value of an item unless it's very rare and there's a strong market demand for it. In the case of this item there is no shortage of supply and the market demand is currently in decline. "The piece reflects my sensibilities and what I find attractive and valuable. I find a concensus of that value out in the real market. Any serious "investor" in antiques would do well to have that piece in their portfolio. Pieces in private hands are not stocks of the Dow or Nasdaq sold on open markets, they are not spot-price bullion, and your ability to attain them is in equal part contingent on the seller." The point being here is there are lots of Royal Dux sellers in this market, on any given day there are over 300 listings for Royal Dux on just Ebay alone, Rubylane lists 89 and GoAntiques lists 102. Detemining their value in the future is pure speculation, personallyI buy pieces that I enjoy looking at, but that being said I'd never pay more than the going rate for anything. "If anything~ The price at $450.00 is "priced to sell" I see a price of a motivated seller. I don't think any amount of counter arguments made by either of you will convince the person who owns the item to decide to sell it to you for $20.00." The only claim I've made has been what comparable pieces currently list for at auction and retail. If the market were full of genuine Royal Dux Nudes selling for around $20.00, then that would be their value. Informed buyers would not be interested in paying more from collections private or otherwise unless it had a provenance that enhanced it's value, EG. " Former property of Jackie Onassiss". "In closing decide if this is an open community for responsible and differing opinions on value and worth or this is: "Lovejoy and Kathybeh world" where the "price of everything and the value of nothing" is determined." This is an open forum, anyone can contribute. Nobody has attacked you, called you names, you were asked how you determined the value because it didn't jive with what what I'm seeing in the market everyday. "Your responses are frankly becoming more ridiculous and if you have a point to be made it is not about this piece. If I offended either of you by informing the person who requested a FREE opinion of the value of their item, I'll apologize to the person who posted the item but not to someone who insists it be a price for their ego, needs, or desire instead of the owners." I don't get you here at all. It was simply pointed out your evaluation did not reflect the current market, and provided market data to illustrate that to you, but you have taken it as a personal insultrather than a what it was intended, a discussion of values in the current Decorative Arts Market. "Something I value and have not for sale starts at 2X before we even BEGIN to initiate a discussion of selling it, maybe 3x, 4x. If there is a hidden objection beyond the item, lets address it like adults. The quibling is frankly ridiculous. " As pointed out repeatedly , your willingness or unwillingness to sell an item from your collection has little bearing on the value of items on the open market, unless you have something very rare with a large pool of buyers pounding on your door. You are free to make any comment you wish regarding items posted here at instappraisal, but you can't expect people not to question your response if they disagree. Lovejoy

You state: "If it's being sold retail in a declining market and the majority of comparables list for similar amounts, then there is very little " Money left in the item", it's being sold for what it currently is worth in the market of highest value." We would have to agree that the "market is in decline" for fine pieces. We would have to agree that the "comparible" pieces were not the specific piece listed for $450.00 (shipping? handling? inurance?) I would hope that you write a "detailed financial illustration of declining value" for any item you appraise. If I was asked to put an insured value for replacement on the item, That Item and not a "comparible item" I would stay with my figure, I might try the new and improved formula of writing an asset capitalization write-off approach where it is written down to zero.

In response to your $1000.00 reserve, the comparables I used were pieces sold at auction this past year, as listed in a previous post as follows: "For example if I do a search for " Royal Dux figure" within the past year in just one of my databases, 80 examples comes up, of which only one sold for more than $1000.00 ( A very large circa 1900 figure, 30" in height). Anything sold for over $1200 has been large figural groups and center pieces, of the others: 21 sold for under $199.00 10 sold in the $200.00- $299.00 range 3 in the $300.00-399.00 range 5 in the $400.00- $499.00 range 3 in the $500- $800.00 range ( large early figures)" The smaller nudes were all in the low end of the range, under $350.00. What is included in in an appraisal depends on its intended use, but generally it would include basics such as: (a) Who the Appraisal was prepared for (b) The purpose and intent of the appraisal (c) Clear identification of each item (d) Where available, the provenance, or history of the item (e) The quality of the item (f) Its comparable value and condition (g) The date of the appraisal (h) A declaration of of any limiting conditions In the case of this piece we were discussing it's value at auction & retail, replacement cost is a different term, but is not always that much higher than retail. For those that are interested, Replacement Value is generally used for insurance appraisals. It is usually described as: "the price in terms of cash or other precisely revealed terms that would be required to replace a property with another of similar age, quality, origin, appearance and condition* within a reasonable length of time in an appropriate and relevant market" In translation it simply means the cost of replacing an item, including costs such as auction fee's, shipping, insurance, use of an agent etc. Which could mean very little difference in value over market value by simply buying it online, visiting a local Antique shop or more substantial costs for items that are more difficult to source. As it has been already determined this particular piece is not rare and replacements are readily available, the extra cost would be negligible such as shipping (about $20.00)and insurance(USPS $13.10 for items $1.00- $500) The asset capitalization write-off approach is not really applicable to Antiques and Collectibles. Such items are considered "Inexhaustible property" which includes assets consumed very slowly, over an extraordinarily long life. They may include assets that are essentially permanent in nature, assets that do not become obsolete, or assets cared for using methods intended to preserve them in perpetuity. Inexhaustible assets are not generally depreciated. Examples of inexhaustible assets include works of art and historical items. * This means replacement with not an exact match, which is why comparable items are used for appraisal purposes. In a best case scenario for this piece barring the availability of the exact same model would be another Royal Dux nude of comparable vintage, size and condition. Lovejoy

There is one for sale just like this for $450.00 online at a retail shop. Assuming its the same size which it appears to be. http://www.trocadero.com/accents/items/564966/item564966store.html
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