BIG NEWS ABOUT - Original Watercolor & Goache by Elisabeth Sonrel

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regularfella2
Posted by regularfella2
16 years ago
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Description This painting is signed & monogrammed with the artists' monogramm in the lower Right . Back of painting is autographed by Elisabeth Sonrel , with the date - '42 Avr 8 - in pencil . Above the autograph is the indication - 1/7 , also in pencil . An art expert used the terms - " what we'd describe today as a 'limited edition' original series " to me , in reference to my painting . Considering the fact that it was painted in France during the Nazi occupation , in the Second World War , it's possible that only two from this series still exist . The original painting titled "Les deux Souers"(The two Sisters) was painted in 1912/1913 & shown in the Salon in Paris in 1913 ... it's larger than mine . At least one more , and possibly two , were painted (by the artist)of the original , in it's same size , and sold under the title of "Les Bretonnes" . One is in museum , in Plougastel , France . The original was painted at Roche de L'imperatrice (Rock of the Empress) near Plougastel , France. One , presumably from the series I own (same size & materials) , was sold in France around May 12 , 2009 (under the title "Les Bretonnes"). There have been , to date , no other paintings from this series besides this one (and mine) that have 'surfaced' . It is unknown if Elisabeth Sonrel actually completed the seven painting series that , by the numbers on my painting , she'd intended to . This painting is not a litho , colorized print , etc. Extensive research has been done on this painting I own , both in the U.S. and in Europe . It has been authenticated , but I've not had it appraised yet . I am asking for opinions on it's general value here first , in the event anyone knows . Much higher resolution image can be seen at : http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv230/mrgeekteatoo/1of7.jpg I've been unable to find out exactly when this painting came to the U.S. , but I do know that it was framed in New York city by - New York Frame & Picture Co. , 116 Fulton Street , N.Y. , N.Y. ( they went out of business around 1953 ) . Thank you , in advance , for any interest . ******************************************************************************* NEWS ON THIS RESEARCH PROJECT !!!!! I HAVE LOCATED ANOTHER PAINTING IN THIS SERIES , AND HAVE PURCHASED IT FROM HOLDING OF ANOTHER PRIVATE ESTATE . This now make 3 that have been found !!!
Category Paintings
Medium Watercolor & Gouache on silk
Distinguishing marks Signed Lower Right , monogrammed lower R , signed & dated in pencil on back
Condition Excellent
Size and dimensions of this item 27cm x 35cm
Date Period April 8 , 1942
Weight N/A
History Purchased from a Private Estate
eBay Auction Link
Price Paid (If known) confidential
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Collector Discussion

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regularfella2 🌱 Newbie 16 years ago

Thank you for your comments , kathyBeh . I've rec'd three unsolicited offers on the first painting I'd purchased ; I'm really not too concerned about or motivated to sell these paintings at this point in time . My primary goal is to have this undiscovered/forgotten series of paintings by Elisabeth Sonrel included in the Art History of the body of her works . It's not the easiest of tasks , but I consider the amount of work required to do this is just my homage to the artist . The search for the other 4 paintings in this series continues .
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Lovejoy 🎯 Collector 16 years ago

Here's what we have on file for her Elisabeth Sonrel (Fr., 1874-1953), Brittany, The daughter of a painter from Tours, Elisabeth Sonrel was a precocious student who went to Paris at an early age to study at the Ecole des Beaux Arts, where she executed her diploma piece at the age of eighteen. She exhibited at the Salon des Artistes Francais from 1893, when she was nineteen, until 1941. Sonrel was quite famous during the early years of her career, when several of her major works were widely reproduced and included in major exhibitions. Her early work was strongly influenced by the symbolist painters. The latest Auction sale listing of a gouache by her sold for $1400.00 (September 2008) Lovejoy
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Dee 1961 🌱 Newbie 16 years ago

As I looked I thought that they almost look like a restrike? Have you looked at these items with a jewelers loupe? What you might find is allot of information on the print itself that will assist in dating the item. Carefully examining the item with a loupe will provide clues. There are antiques and then there are collectibles. Nice piece of investment grade portfolio artwork. Your goal of getting the piece into print is admirable and will increase the value of the piece. If you do not have a short-term objective for the piece then "lending" it to a museum is an option to additionally raise visibility and awareness of the item. An item on loan can be part of an exhibition where market focus can be served. Museums are loathe to just accept any piece for the purpose of visibility, putting an item or collection in a trust for an extended period of time is one way to provide the assurance to the museum that their acceptance of the loaned item is sound. It is one thing to have Brockunier pieces as an example, it is another to have the item in the Oglebay Institute Glass Museum. But to have more than one: one in the museum that you 'loan' and another available for sale 'if the buyer was motivated enough' is always the best scenario. The sale can often accelerate the value of the retained item. But getting an item in the right museum is a great first step to getting the item in print.
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kathyBeh 🌱 Newbie 16 years ago

She died in 1953. She may have heirs that would probably own copyright to her paintings. They may even have the original. Without the owners permission copying this painting /print would be illegal. Any way to find out if she has living heirs? Many of her paintings are sold as posters/ prints so if you could get information from those perhaps you would then know who has copyrights. Can you post photos of the back of the painting, the one not in the frame that you showed us? Please. Was this the one you just bought on Ebay? http://cgi.ebay.com/antique-Elisabeth-Sonrel-art-print-painting-framed_W0QQitemZ300331551443QQcmdZViewItemQQptZArt_Prints?hash=item45ed27cad3&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1205|293%3A10|294%3A50
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regularfella2 🌱 Newbie 16 years ago

You're speaking about a "droit morale" , I think , in your first question . As E.Sonrel had no children there are no 'direct' heirs . Copyrights on her litho works have changed hands a few times , I'm told . I'm a bit confused about which painting you'd like to see an image of , kathyBeh ... starting from the top (#1,#2,#3) of the ones I've already posted , which one (#)are you talking/asking about ? The answer to your ebay question is yes (& @ quite a bargan price , no ?) , and is the second one I've bought that has/was misidentified by the seller(s) as a print .
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regularfella2 🌱 Newbie 16 years ago

Thank you for your comments/input , Dee . My first purchased one of the series has been physically examined by 2 professional Art Conservators ( these 2 are folks who do work for national,regional and local museums ) , 2 Art Historians ( 1-PhD , 1-finalizing their PhD ) and a professional appraiser ( for the purpose of authentication ) . It's been examined under various spectrum lightings , both physical & photographic , and by magnification from 5x to 30x . The second found painting has gone through the simular process . They have both been authenticated as original works , seemingly to everyones' surprise . Photo-comparative study of all available "versions" , regardless of the physical dimentions of the painting(s) have shown that each one is unique onto itself . One of my original discoveries is that , based upon these photo-comparative research results , the 'original' painting displayed in Paris (in 1913) is not the same one as the currently displayed as the 'original' in museum in Plougastel , France . This has deepened the mystery around the 'Les deux Souers' ; to date , it is the only discovered works that the artist ever produced original multiple 'editions' of - all this thanks to someone seeing the notation " 1 / 7 " on the back of an original artwork , thousands of miles from where it was created . Go figure . I've had close to one hundred 'leads' about other paintings in the series from around the world ... many are winding up dead-ends , but many more are being researched . One of these leads produced evidence of a third painting that wound up being such a reality . All I can say about my efforts , and those of folks helping the process is that we've managed to raise a bunch of questions (& backs too) based on facts previously unexplored . We've located 3 cool paintings too ..... I postulate that there is a very good story behind why Elisabeth Sonrel chose only this composition to paint again & again , 30 years after she'd painted the original . I think there is where the real gold is , in this little mystery in art history .
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Dee 1961 🌱 Newbie 16 years ago

That is what I was curious about, there is a wide variety of watermark information that can be gathered from the print material itself that offers clues. Most prints involve a close relationship between the artist and the engraver. But this is not always the case, often one of the two parties had more influence than the other. As an example two different watermarks would indicate that the relationship favored the artist possibly; if it could be determined by that information that two distinct different printers were used, (the artist owned the plates) or conversely there was a continual production by a sole printer over an extended time, indicating the other scenario. And then there is giclee, enough said.. It was not that uncommon at that time period to have parlor studios and workshops where classes were offered by noted painters and artists. Though not a long-shot: if you know of the town or city were the artist lived there is now often digital reprodcutions of the periodicals or newspapers of that material (that might) offer some additional information. It is interesting that you focus on the mystery and investigative side of the love of art, I think long-term aside from investment and the "pretty object" appeal that that is what keeps people interested. Often you can get a significant amount of information about an item and when asked: "how do you know?" Reply I read it in the newspaper. During that era local arts often was covered similar to how sports is covered today with a dedicated weekly collumn. But yes photgraphic analysis, magnification, small snippet of the material for composit analysis, and the watermark of the print is all useful information if not essential infromation to better understanding the pieces. I'm also glad to hear that your a keeper and not a flipper of art. I always keep my eyes open for pieces and have been fortunate myself by taking educated risks in printts.
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regularfella2 🌱 Newbie 16 years ago

Thank you for your informed input & suggestions , Dee 1961 . Elisabeth Sonrel was , by all accounts , an eccentric personality . In the time period that these paintings were produced (Nazi occupation of France) it was double-tough to be a free-thinking intellectual , academic or artist ; especially so for women . Her initial formal art education was done during the time when it was illegal in France to teach women such skills ; she was among the first women pioneers in France to be enrolled in formal art education after those laws were changed at the end of the 19th century . The misogynistic attitudes of the era did not vanish with the changing of laws . Many anecdotal records about the artist (both personal & public) and her activities seem , to me , tainted overtly (or covertly) by this distortion and lack of objectivity . Even Occam's razor seems somewhat blunted in many accounts , then & now . Although her art was discounted and rejected during her lifetime , I still think that it speaks for itself , in a voice original . There are a few pieces of her original works on paper in existence that she signed and did not emboss with her personal monogramm-press (the two I have bear her monogram) . Research along this line has shown that , to date , Elisabeth Sonrel never used her artists' monogram on any artworks associated with her , excepting her originals . If you , or anyone else here , is interested in the most current information on her art & life , I suggest reading (available on-line , in French) reading "BULLETIN DES AMIS DE SCEAUX" and search for the article written this year by Charlotte Foucher about Elisabeth Sonrel . Charlotte is a French Art Historian and one of the current leading world experts on the artist ; I am grateful for her personal help in my research efforts . Although I've gone on & on in this post , I'd like to comment that I appreciate input from folks , especially from those with no financial or commercial interests (there's enough of those , thank you very much!) regarding these works and the artist that produced them .
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Dee 1961 🌱 Newbie 16 years ago

Interesting, topic. The life is as colorful as the work at times. "BULLETIN DES AMIS DE SCEAUX" Something getting lost in the google translation~ When one stops to think about many household names in art it is easy to forget that in their own lifetime's they were often not celebrated. Gauguin as an example was not well received in his lifetime, and with the advent of photography was pressed to stretch conventions. When you consider a notable artist it is often the departure from the conventions that stand them apart. "A defiance to be unheard." The letters from Tahiti from Gauguin are interesting as you realize that these works were all but rejected in their day and that the real value at that time was in the "sensationalism." Specifically interesting was the pleading for monies and the response of the spouse. "Many anecdotal records about the artist (both personal & public) and her activities seem , to me , tainted overtly (or covertly) by this distortion and lack of objectivity ." "Even Occam's razor seems somewhat blunted in many accounts , then & now." Laughing and that is why we are curious~ The simplest explanation is not sufficiemt at times to conjectuure upon the artistic mind.
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Vipec 🌱 Newbie 15 years ago

RJ, Your posts are very interesting. I think the copies you have are indeed copies of the original. The original painting was much bigger. In another post you suggest you have a B&W illustration of the original 1913 exhibit. Would you be able to post this illustration or send it to me as I think I might be able to help you with your quest. V

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